Showing posts with label complementarian. Show all posts
Showing posts with label complementarian. Show all posts

Saturday, April 11, 2026

Excluding People In Case God Wants Us To

At the moment of Jesus' death, "the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom." (Matthew 27:51) Image source. 


In some churches, women aren't allowed to volunteer as ushers, or to serve communion, or to read Scripture to the congregation. Because, the bible says women should not speak in church, and a woman must not have authority over a man.

There are also churches that believe men and women are fully equal, and women can have all the same leadership positions that men can. They interpret those bible verses as only applicable to the first-century churches they were written to, and not absolute rules for all time.

Suppose you don't know which side of this debate to believe. It certainly seems sexist and wrong to put restrictions on women, but at the same time, it's right there in the bible, so maybe God really does want us to do it?

Maybe it would be wise to err on the side of caution, and not allow women to do things. It's difficult- it's difficult to obey God in this way- everyone will call you a sexist, and also if you exclude all the women volunteers, maybe you don't even have enough men volunteers to run your church service. One could argue that obedience to God is in fact supposed to be difficult like this. It's so hard, it's a sacrifice, look how we are sacrificing so much for God. Much more righteous than taking the easy way out and just letting women have all the same roles that men can have, right?

The problem with this framework is, it has God above us, and we are down here trying to please him, trying to follow the rules correctly, for him. God has high standards, and we have to work really hard, exclude people just in case God wants them excluded, the narrower the better, no sacrifice is too great if we are doing it for God.

But God is not up there, waiting for us to present our carefully-screened representatives to perform worship in our best attempt to follow Their rules. God is here. God is in us. All humans bear the image of God. If your church excludes women from volunteer/leadership roles, you are excluding God.

If you restrict women, you're not "erring on the side of caution." You're cutting off part of the body of Christ. You're cutting off God.

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Gay Christians face a similar debate. The traditional interpretation of the bible says only hetero relationships are allowed, and sex is only for one-man-one-woman marriage. On the other side, you have gay Christians making the argument that those bible verses were written for the people in the ancient Near East, and they don't apply to us now.

But if you're not sure who to believe, what do you do? Maybe don't ever date a same-sex partner, just in case it's a sin. Maybe a church should not do same-sex weddings, or have queer people in leadership. High standards, for God.

But again, you're cutting off God. God is in queer people, queer joy, the way that we thrive when we're able to accept ourselves for who we are. Don't ask people to repress themselves for God- you're repressing God. All the diversity and beauty of the image of God, living in so many different people with so many different experiences and perspectives, and we're trying to cut it down, fit it in a box, make it fit the straight and narrow "rules."

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Another example is that time in college that we brought a friend to church, and he said he was a Christian, but we "knew" he wasn't a "real" Christian. I wrote about this in my post The Worst Bible Story:

On another occasion, a friend of mine, let’s call him Hector, brought another friend, let’s call him Carl, to church. Carl claimed to be a Christian, but he hadn’t been attending church or anything, and Hector and I knew that he didn’t have a real “relationship with God”, you know, because evangelical Christians are all about judging who is and who isn’t a “real Christian.”

So Carl came to church. And that week, we had communion, and Hector stopped him and explained, you know, honestly, you’re not a real Christian, so you shouldn’t take communion. And Carl was really hurt by it (can you imagine), but I admired Hector for taking a stand like that. Defending the wafers and grape juice from those who don’t have the “correct” view on Jesus.

I would never have done what Hector did, because I was not confident enough in my understanding of 1 Corinthians 11 and I had never seen anyone stopped from taking communion before. ...

I would never have done that, but I really admired Hector for the way he stepped out in faith and took a stand for God, even though other people didn't accept it.

Excluding Christians from communion because we think they're not "really" Christians. Because we believed God was above us, judging whether we stayed in the lines or not, and God was offended by anyone who came forward and ate a little wafer but didn't meet the standards of how to believe in Jesus the "correct" way.

We thought that if someone felt hurt by being blocked from taking communion, well, that was a small price to pay to keep up the highest standards of respect for God. Making sure that only people who were definitely the right kind of Christian were allowed to participate.

We were actually excluding God.

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Matthew 1 contains [one version of] Jesus' genealogy. It traces his ancestry from father to son, through Abraham, down through David and the kings of ancient Judah, down to Joseph, the husband of Mary. I've often heard Christians point out how interesting it is that this genealogy mentions some women. I mean, it's a typical patriarchal genealogy in that it's all about "so-and-so was the father of so-and-so," but at a few points in the list of fathers and sons, it also mentions who someone's mother was.

Specifically, the women included in the Matthew 1 genealogy are: Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, Bathsheba, and Mary.

Tamar, whose first husband Er was wicked, so the Lord put him to death. Then she was required to marry his brother, Onan, who was also wicked and the Lord put him to death. Then she was supposed to marry the remaining brother, but her father-in-law Judah didn't let her, so she disguised herself as a prostitute to get Judah to have sex with her, and she became pregnant that way. 

Rahab, a prostitute and foreigner, a resident of Jericho, whose city was attacked and the people killed by Joshua and his army.

Ruth, a widow and foreigner from Moab, which was one of Israel's enemies.

Bathsheba, who was raped by King David. She became pregnant, so David murdered her husband Uriah, and married her.

Mary, the mother of Jesus, who was a virgin but probably had people judging her for being unmarried and pregnant.

This is not exactly the dream team that you would assemble if you wanted good, respectable, uncomplicated role models. So why did Matthew go out of his way to point out that these women were part of Jesus' family line? 

One way I've heard this explained is, this is great because it shows that even if we're not perfect, we can still be part of God's work. God can still use us to do amazing things, despite our flaws.

I want to spin it a little bit differently, though: God lives in the women that society rejects. The widows, the immigrants, the sex workers, the women in bad marriages, the rape victims. To exclude them, to say Jesus needs a perfect pure genealogy... you're excluding God.

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Christian missionaries go to different parts of the world, encounter diverse and interesting cultures, where God is already there and alive, and tell the people to stop doing all that and follow the missionaries' religion instead.

God was already there, before any Christians came. The people have the image of God, and they have their own culture and religion, which is important and meaningful to them. The missionaries tell them to cut it off, to repress it, that it's *bad* because it's worshipping the wrong gods- you're cutting off God.

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Deuteronomy 23:1 says, "No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord."

Hundreds of years later, an Ethiopian eunuch met Philip, one of the early Christians. Philip told him about Jesus, and he believed, and said, "Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?" Is this legit? Can he be baptized? Can he be welcomed and included?

Philip didn't think it was an issue at all. Philip baptized him.

Throughout the bible, there are some passages about excluding people who have some kind of imperfection and therefore don't meet the standards and can't enter God's presence. And then there are other passages about God's radical inclusiveness, about marginalized people who were accepted and approved of by God. Slaves, people from the wrong nations, people from the wrong religions. 

I don't think this is a simple Old Testament/ New Testament split- it's common for Christians to claim that the Old Testament was about rules and the New Testament is about God's love- but the verse that says women can't speak in church is from the New Testament. And the Old Testament has stories about welcoming immigrants, which stand in contrast to its laws about killing everyone in every city you conquer. 

The bible has all of these threads running through it; we use our own beliefs about the nature of God to decide which bible passages to emphasize and which to disagree with.

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1 Corinthians 12 says that we are the body of Christ.

Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

This passage is about diversity. About how we need diversity, or else we are actually excluding parts of Christ.

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The Christians who want to exclude people... well, God is in them too. We can't cut them off either. 

In practice, that means thinking about how to get people who disagree to coexist in a church. You can't just say we all accept each other even if we disagree, because these issues are about one group's basic rights on one side, vs another group's bigoted opinions on the other side. 

So you need to make sure you set up a system where people who want to exclude and restrict others are not given the power to do that. And okay that sounds complicated- but really, you have to do that anyway. All the groups of people I've mentioned in this post, as examples of people who bear the image of God and shouldn't be excluded- well, they are all imperfect people who have conflicts sometimes. We all are.

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Is God above us, waiting to see if we are good enough to meet Their standards, requiring us to restrict and ban people who aren't good enough to participate in worshipping Them? More restrictions, higher standards, the eye saying to the hand, "I don't need you."

No, God is with us, in us, and when we exclude people, we are excluding God.

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Related:

What kind of God will judge how we treat immigrants?

Don't Protect God

"The Only Moral Virgin Birth Is My Virgin Birth"

Saturday, March 21, 2026

Blogaround

Links not related to the antichrist:

1. If AI’s Native Language Is English, Where Does That Leave China? (March 12) "Many non-English languages are often what researchers call low-resource (e.g., Swahili) or medium-resource (e.g., Vietnamese) languages. This means there might not be enough diverse and high-quality digital texts — such as scientific papers, business case studies, or legal documents — available in those languages to train AI models on."

2. Conquest Narrative // Good Relation (March 16) A Jewish take on the biblical story of Joshua. "We could stop here, read the Conquest Narrative as both warning and foreshadowing, and move on. But there’s something that sits wrong with me about this solution."

3. Apples, Oranges, and Genomes: A Critique of Dr. Carter’s Claims about Human-Chimpanzee Genetic Similarity (March 12) "Christians deserve better than to be told that the latest Nature paper confirms their faith when in reality that paper’s authors see nothing in their data that challenges the standard evolutionary framework, and when the data actually strengthen the evidence for common ancestry by providing a more complete picture of genomic evolution across the ape lineage."

4. Why Complementarianism Isn’t Actually About Men Really Leading (March 18) "Male leadership in complementarianism is not about men leading, but instead about men being free from accountability and responsibility." Yeah this is what happens when you have an ideology that says the husband is the leader because he's a *man*, so he just *is*, regardless of whether he actually has any qualities that fit any normal definitions of "leadership."

5. The structure of ideological abuse (March 9) "You must never require someone to share their inner life with you without their free, full, informed consent."

6. Cesar Chavez abused and raped women and girls, NYT investigation says (March 18) [content note: rape] "In a statement posted to Medium on Wednesday, Huerta wrote: 'I am nearly 96 years old, and for the last 60 years have kept a secret because I believed that exposing the truth would hurt the farmworker movement I have spent my entire life fighting for.'"

7. Chuck Norris, martial arts master and actor whose toughness became internet lore, dies at 86 (March 21)

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Links related to the antichrist:

1. ICE agents reveal daily arrest quotas and surveillance app in rare court testimony (March 13, via) "In the hearing, an ICE agent identified as JB testified that his team was given a verbal order to target eight arrests a day."

2. Hypothetical Legal Advice to SecDef Hegseth on “No Quarter” Statement (from Office of General Counsel) (March 14, via) Hegseth keeps talking about how enthusiastically he wants to commit war crimes. WTF? Can we impeach him or something?

3. FCC chair threatens TV networks amid Iran war coverage — but his warning rings hollow (March 16) 

4. Top US counterterrorism official resigns over Iran war, urging Trump to 'reverse course' (March 18, via) "'This echo chamber was used to deceive you into believing that Iran posed an imminent threat to the United States,' the letter continued. 'This was a lie.'"

5. One Year Later: The Effect of US ‘Chainsaw’ on Global Health (January 20, via) "To date, 757,314 people – the majority children – have died from the funding cuts, according to ImpactCounter, which tracks the effect of USAID cuts via sophisticated modelling tools."

6. Zionist Institutions Spread Antisemitic Propaganda (March 15) "Israel and Zionist orgs in the US have effectively been releasing huge amounts of antisemitic propaganda, linking Jews to the action of a violent nation state and its policies of sweeping censorship, apartheid, genocide, and war."

Also from Everything is Horrible: Dems’ No Tax Proposals Are Reactionary Garbage (March 17) "When people say that US society is not affordable, they are saying they’d like to pay less for groceries. But they are also very much saying that US society is constructed in a way that is inhuman, cruel, and un-navigable for everyone but the ultra-rich."

7. Judge ends asylum claims for Liam Conejo Ramos and his family, orders family's removal (March 18) "Attorney Danielle Molliver, with Nwokocha & Operana Law Offices, told MPR News on Wednesday that the firm is appealing the decision handed down by U.S. Immigration Judge John Burns. Molliver said an appeal could take months or years."

8. Trump is dismantling democracy at 'unprecedented' speed, global report finds (March 20)

9. ICE officers are taking DNA samples from protesters they've arrested (March 19) "'What you worry about is an officer making a decision in the field that a person committed a crime when they might not have. Maybe they were doing something protected under the First Amendment,' Kerr says. 'The officer says, 'I think you crossed the line, I'm going to arrest you.' It turns out the officer was wrong, but the DNA test has been conducted, and the information has been entered into the database. What then?'"

Monday, March 16, 2026

Blogaround

Links not related to the antichrist:

1. Happily Never After: The Curious Case of Love and Respect (Deep Dive) (February 5, 1-hour-15-minute video) This is a deep dive into the book "Love and Respect," which is the best selling Christian marriage book. The overall thesis of the book is that women need love and men need respect. If your husband is not treating you right, you can solve all your marriage problems by respecting him more. By never disagreeing with him. By never bringing up any problems. As it turns out, this is extremely bad advice. (This is part 1 in a 3-part series.)

2. No ID, No Support, No Plan: Michigan's wrongfully convicted launch app to fill reentry gaps (March 5) "Unlike parolees, who often have months of notice before being released and access to reentry services, exonerees may be released with as little as a few hours' warning and no support at all."

3. New NHS England Review Excluded 97% Of All Trans Studies To Say Care Doesn't Work (March 11) "These 10 reviews are not science. They are the machinery of a government that has decided to eliminate transgender healthcare and is working backward from that conclusion."

4. Technical Debt Collectors: China’s Coders Count Cost of AI Errors (March 12) "When programmers point out an error, the AI will apologize and acknowledge the problem, Wei says. But the new code it produces often introduces new bugs somewhere else, and the process repeats."

5. What Do We Owe the Insufferable? (January 30, via) "Liberals and leftists, committed to deinstitutionalization and autonomy, respond by 'pretending that mental illness never results in antisocial behavior, much less violent crime.'"

6. Home Remedies (March 9) From xkcd.

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Links related to the antichrist:

1. Photos from Iran and across the Middle East as the war enters Week 2 (March 10)

2. Thousands in New York City must work to keep SNAP food benefits. ‘The pressure is on.’ (March 3, via) "But a measure pushed by Congressional Republicans and the Trump administration will require about 123,000 New Yorkers to prove that they are working, volunteering or in school beginning in March. This now includes veterans, homeless people, youth aging out of foster care, and parents with children older than 14. It also means that some seniors who had retired under the old rules will now have to go back to work to continue getting food benefits."

3. NYU Langone faces Wednesday deadline to resume gender-affirming care for minors (March 11) "But state officials said NYU Langone’s move violated New York’s sweeping human rights law, which bans discrimination based on an individual’s gender identity. Attorney General Letitia James’ office gave NYU Langone until March 11 to resume the procedures."

4. Statue depicting Trump, Epstein as Jack, Rose from 'Titanic' appears on National Mall (March 11)

5. The U.S. Built a Blueprint to Avoid Civilian War Casualties. Trump Officials Scrapped It. (March 10)

6. Is the US Military Trying to Bring Back Jesus? (March 14) "I absolutely 100% believe that some military leaders are using Evangelical Christian end times prophesy to generate excitement for troops to go into battle. That’s been happening for years, and they need it now more than ever considering that the past few wars in the Middle East were actually popular, while this one is not."

7. House GOP leadership silent as more members post anti-Muslim statements (March 14)

Thursday, March 5, 2026

Blogaround

Links not related to the antichrist:

1. Can Complementarians Please Stop Using the “You’re Equal to Your Boss” Analogy? (March 2) "When complementarians say, 'Well, that’s what the Bible says' it is fair to answer them back, 'Well, either you are wrong in your interpretation or God is sexist.'"

2. on the other trafficked girls in Esther (February 26) "All of them are captured by agents of the State— "deputies" – to take these girls from their families and get them to travel sometimes exceedingly far distances so that the king can decide if they "please" him."

3. Created to Die? Exploding Termites and the “Very Good” Creation (February 8) "It’s a familiar strategy: describe complexity, express incredulity, declare design."

4. The market for marriage (February 19) "The usual pattern is that pastoralists are inegalitarian, inequality drives polygyny, and polygyny drives male control of women."

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As a reminder, you don't have to read all the news links. But, *do* something. Check on your trans friends, protest, call your congress people, get connected to local groups, donate to groups that help immigrants.

Links related to the antichrist:

1. ACLU Files Lawsuit Against Kansas Trans Drivers License Revocations, Bathroom Bounty Hunter Law (February 27) "The lawsuit is being brought by two anonymous plaintiffs, both transgender men. Both hold driver's licenses with male gender markers. SB 244 retroactively invalidates those licenses, which will 'forcibly out Plaintiffs as transgender.'"

2. Trump administration drops suits against law firms after judges find president's orders unconstitutional (March 3) "'This episode will be remembered as demonstrating the difference between institutions that had the ethical courage to uphold the Constitution and fight bullying and then won, and those that compromised their ethics and gained nothing,' Gupta said in a statement Monday. 'Let’s hope that media companies, universities, and other organizations pay heed.'"

Oh but wait, DOJ is [not?] dropping its appeals of losses in the law firm order cases. What is going on? (March 3) 

3. Who attacked a girls' school in Iran, and will there be accountability? (March 3) "As the death toll in the conflict passes 175, calls rise for an investigation into potential human rights violations and war crimes."

4. Before you share that story about how troops were told the Iran War is for "Armageddon," read this (March 4) Yes, we should fact-check and not believe everything!

5. Why supporting a shelter for women is now 'kind of radioactive' (March 4) "A global survey by U.N. Women published in October 2025 found that more than 40% of organizations working to end violence against women and girls had to scale back life-saving services or shut down completely in the past year because of funding cuts."

These MAGAs talk about how they're the ones "protecting women" by discriminating against trans people, and at the same time they're massively cutting funding for women's shelters. It's another example of the ideology I talked about in my post about being right vs doing good.

Saturday, February 28, 2026

"This advice isn't meant for abusive relationships"

Silhouette of a man and woman holding hands. Image source.

[content note: abuse, rape, victim-blaming]

Here's a good post from Sheila Wray Gregoire: Why You Can’t Say: “This Advice Isn’t Meant for Those in Abusive Marriages”. Gregoire has written many blog posts and books criticizing the harmful marriage advice that is constantly being promoted in Christian spaces, pointing out how this advice is often so bad, it will make an abusive relationship even worse. And sometimes people respond by saying this criticism isn't valid because the advice was only intended for normal, healthy relationships, not for abusive relationships.

(Here's a link with a bunch of examples of Christian marriage books with this kind of unhealthy advice.)

In her post, Gregoire says this response doesn't make sense, because statistically, something like 25% of the readers of these books are in abusive relationships. And people in abusive relationships often don't recognize the abuse until years later. They just read these Christian marriage advice books, and try so hard to follow the advice and fix their marriages.

This is a really good point and I'm glad Gregoire is writing about it. I want to add a few of my own thoughts here.

Friday, February 6, 2026

My thoughts have changed on aces "pleasing their partners"

Asexual flag. Image source.

This post is part of the January/February 2026 Carnival of Aces. The topic is "second glance."

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[content note: it's about consenting to sex you don't like]

It's a common piece of info I've often seen in "asexuality 101" resources. "Some aces do choose to have sex, for various reasons. Like, curiosity. Or, because it feels good. Or, to please their partner." 

And way back when, that was also a reason for me. But now my thinking has changed on this. Having sex just because your partner wants to is much more complicated than the breezy way it's presented in Asexuality 101. It is, quite possibly, a bad idea

Friday, January 23, 2026

Kinda Tired of Talking About the Greco-Roman Household Codes

Book cover for "Jesus Feminist"

Today in "books that Perfect Number heard about 10 years ago and finally got around to reading":

I read Jesus Feminist: An Invitation to Revisit the Bible's View of Women, by Sarah Bessey, published in 2013. This book, it talks about a lot of things- but at the beginning, there's a part about the bible passages that say women should be subordinate to men. The book presents interpretations of these passages which make the case that the bible actually supports equality between men and women.

There's the verse that says women must be silent in church. In this book, Bessey explains that this doesn't mean women should be silent in all churches everywhere, but that there was a group of women in one specific church that Paul was writing to, who were disrupting the church meetings, and this is just referring to them. Indeed, it wouldn't make sense to interpret this passage as Paul saying that women should be silent in all churches everywhere, because Paul also commends women who worked with him as church leaders.

There's the verse that says wives must submit to their husbands. Bessey explains that these commands were given in a very patriarchal society, and actually were really progressive in that context.

And there are a few more bible verses discussed here, toward the beginning of the book. Bessey makes the case that these verses show that God actually intended for there to be equality between men and women. 

And I'm just like... can we not do this? I'm kinda tired of doing this. 

I mean, it's my own fault for reading a Christian feminist book from 2013. Obviously a Christian feminist book from 2013 is gonna go through these bible verses and give feminist interpretations of them. People in 2013 needed to hear that. *I* needed to hear that, back in 2010ish, when I first read these interpretations on Rachel Held Evans's blog. There are still people *now* who need to hear this. There are Christian women who are told that they are not allowed to do this or that role in the church, because the bible says women can't, and these Christian women believe that's something they need to treat seriously. There are Christian women in bad marriages, who believe the only thing God has to say about that is "wives submit to your husbands."

But it kinda rubs me the wrong way now, the way we have to "well actually" the bible, the way we have to walk through this bible study before we're allowed to be feminists. It's like, you're starting out with this chain of logic:

  1. We have to believe whatever the bible says
  2. The bible says men are the leaders and women must submit
  3. Therefore men and the leaders and women must submit

And then a case is made for this logic instead:

  1. We have to believe whatever the bible says
  2. Oh, look at this! The bible actually says that men and women are equal! When you interpret it correctly.
  3. Therefore men and women are equal

But I would like to propose this alternative:

  1. It's just obvious to anyone with a conscience and experience living in the world, that men and women should be equal
  2. (Optional) You can read the bible if you want I guess

Also, isn't it a little too convenient? We can explain it all perfectly, so the *actual* meaning of the bible isn't sexist in any way, shape, or form. We carefully separate the layers- the sexism of the culture where this was written, the sexism of the writer, and the intended message- and oh look, when you do that, you see that all the sexism was in the other layers, and none of it was in the "intended message" layer. Hooray! 

Yeah, kind of a little too convenient. Although, if you believe in inerrancy, that means you believe the bible is perfectly telling one good and consistent message all throughout, so it won't seem suspicious to you if things are "too convenient." (I do not believe in inerrancy.)

I'm a bible nerd. I love the bible! But can we let it just be what it is, rather than needing it to be a shining beacon of feminism, or else we can't believe in equal rights?

Like, do we really have to do all this? Can't we just say "oh, people were sexist back then" and then get back to the task of doing justice, loving mercy, and walking humbly before God? Can't we just "love our neighbors as ourselves"? We're not allowed to "love our neighbors as ourselves" as it pertains to the issue of gender discrimination until we get to the bottom of whether or not the apostle Paul was sexist.

I no longer care if the apostle Paul was sexist. In the past, I believed that "these passages that Paul wrote actually support gender equality if you interpret them correctly" is the hill you gotta die on, if you're a Christian feminist, but now I'm like, can we not? So what if Paul was trying to say something sexist? Paul is not in charge of me. The bible is not in charge of me. 

I get the sense, from reading "Jesus Feminist," that Bessey is also tired of talking about it. She says, she doesn't want to keep arguing with the powers-that-be, about why women should have a seat at the table. Let's forget the table entirely, and go start a bonfire.

I like this quote from page 171:

I'm through wasting my time with debates about women-should-do-this and women-should-not-do-that boundaries. I'm out. What an adventure in missing the point. These are the small, small arguments about a small, small god.

And this Christian feminist apologetics lesson is just a section at the beginning of the book. I don't want to give the wrong impression- that's not what this book is about overall, but it was the part that stood out to me because I was annoyed by it. Maybe I shouldn't be annoyed, because people really do still need to hear those arguments. But like... isn't it kind of messed-up that Christians believe we can't support equal rights until we can come up with a biblical interpretation that says we're allowed to do so?

Let me tell you what was good about the rest of the book. There's a chapter about experiencing God in the context of pregnancy/ childbirth/ being a mother. If it's only men who are allowed to preach in the church, you miss out on this whole angle on the nature of God. Also, there were parts in this book about the missions work that Bessey did in Haiti. Christian feminism means going and *doing* things to help people. It's not about debating conservative men about what women are allowed to do. It's so much more than that.

So, is the part where we debate conservative men about the bible a prerequisite for the "going and doing" part? Ugh, can we not? What if we just, like, skipped that part?

You don't have to do that, to be a Christian. You don't! You don't have to believe the bible, or obey the bible. I love the bible, but it is not in charge of me. (I do think it's a positive thing for Christians to read the bible- but not like this.) My Christianity is not about that. My Christianity is about Jesus. It's about incarnation, Immanuel, God with us. It's about the image of God in every human, the thriving diversity of the image of God, alive, every flag in the LGBTQIA community, speaking every language, feeling the whole range of human emotions. It's about "love your neighbor as yourself." It's about "whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me." It's about "the first will be last, and the last will be first." It's about #BlackLivesMatter and free health care. It's about bringing the kingdom of heaven to the earth.

But wait! Hold up! We can't do any of that until we figure out how serious the apostle Paul was about "women should remain silent in church." Umm, really? Really? No, let's not get stuck on this. You can read the bible if you want, but don't let it stand in the way of doing good and following Jesus.

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Related

"Mother God" (as a queer Christian, I am so into this book)

"Genesis for Normal People": Separating "what the writer meant" from "what is true" and "what it means for us"

"Slaves, Women & Homosexuals" (What is this book actually about?) 

It Doesn’t Actually Matter What Jesus Said About Divorce

Motivated By Inerrancy Or Sexism?

Men have no idea what it's like for women in complementarian churches

Sunday, September 28, 2025

Maybe I had more faith when I was complementarian, and that's a bad thing

A rock with the word "Faith" on it. Image source.

Faith. What is faith? Way back when, I understood faith in this way: God tells us to do something, and we can't understand it and it doesn't make any sense to us, but we trust that God must have a reason, and it must be right somehow, even though we have no idea how, and so we obey.

And also, I believed in complementarianism: the belief that God made men and women with different talents and roles that "complement" each other, which in practice means that women are restricted from certain leadership roles in the church, and a man must be the "spiritual leader" of his wife and children. This is something that doesn't make sense. Never really did make any sense to me, as a women. But supposedly the bible says it, so surely God has a good reason, and so we have to obey.

And then I started reading Christian feminist blogs, which pointed out all the ways that complementarianism does actual harm to real people in the real world. These blogs also looked more closely at the bible verses that are used to restrict women from leadership, and showed that, no, it doesn't make sense to interpret them that way, and that actually the bible supports equality.

The Christian feminist blogs made a good case! But here's what I was stuck on: what about faith?

You can make the case that complementarianism makes no sense and is actually harmful, and that the alternative, egalitarianism, does make sense. Okay, sure. But doesn't "faith" mean "God commanded us to do something that doesn't make sense- something that seems to us to be a really bad idea- and we cannot possibly understand the reasons why, but God does have good reasons on some level, and so we have to do it"? Sure, it's always been obvious to me that complementarianism doesn't make sense, but that's what we should expect, right? We should expect that God commands us to do things that make no sense, like banning qualified women from church leadership. Otherwise, what is the role of faith?

I remember discussing this with other bloggers on the internet back then- how mystified I was at the idea that we can and should use our own brains to look at the real-world effects of our religion's rules, and not follow the rules which were obviously bad. What even is faith, then? Aren't we expecting that God will give us rules that don't make sense to us, with our fallible human thinking, but make sense to God?

The answer I got from Christian feminists on the internet back then was, when we say faith means "God tells us to do things that don't make sense", it means things like, being kind to someone that you feel doesn't deserve it. They gave some examples like that- all of which felt really weak to me. These weren't actually examples of God telling us to do things that made no sense. They were examples of actions which you could understand the reasons behind them, but you personally didn't want to do them because of your own feelings. That didn't feel like "faith" as I had always understood it.

(And also, please note that they meant "be kind to someone that you feel doesn't deserve it" only in a common-sense way. If you take this idea too far, and say that abuse victims should stay with their abusers in the name of being kind of them, well, these same Christian feminists would take a stand and say this is wrong. As they should. So yeah, my point stands. They were not *actually* advocating doing things that *actually* don't make sense.)

I finally came to the conclusion that no, this idea that "faith means doing something that makes no sense" is just not a thing. I just straight-up do not believe in that any more. Every command that God supposedly gives you can be analyzed and fact-checked.

If the church continues to believe that there are some roles that women just can't have, if we continue to discriminate even when we see how women in the church are suffering because of it, even when we see that it enables abuse, that it makes it harder for abuse victims because someone is going to say "well you still need to submit to your husband", even when everyone outside the church is shocked and horrified by the sexism- if the church continues to have these sexist policies, doesn't that show their faith is very strong? They believe God said this, so they just plow ahead, not caring what the consequences are. Isn't that what faith is? And the stronger your faith, the more you will ignore the real-world effects that you can see with your own eyes. The real-world effects that you literally are experiencing, if you are a woman.

That kind of faith is indeed very strong. And that's a bad thing. We shouldn't have faith like that.

When I changed my beliefs from complementarian to feminist, it wasn't simply a matter of "well these bible verses make more sense under a framework where God wants equality between men and women." I had to completely change what I thought "faith" was. I now believe in a Christianity which doesn't leave any room for this "faith" of forging ahead with something that clearly seems like a bad idea. Like Jesus said, a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. Use your own mind and fact-check your God.

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Related:

Men have no idea what it's like for women in complementarian churches 

"Women shouldn't preach" MUST mean "women can't preach"

This 93% Stat About Dads is Totally Made-Up 

"Faith" means "doing something that is a bad idea"

How long will you wait for your experience to match up with the bible? 

Perfect Number Watches VeggieTales "Josh and the Big Wall" (1997)

Friday, August 22, 2025

"Egalitarian Pleasure Party"

Clip art image of a balance scale with a female symbol on one side and male symbol on the other side. Image source.

[content note: it's about Christians teaching that men are supposed to sexually dominate women]

This is something that flitters through my mind every now and then, and I think to myself "I should blog about that" but also "maybe no one cares because it happened in 2012." Well, Doug Wilson is in the news now, for being a pastor who is super conservative and sexist, like so over-the-top sexist, you didn't even know there *were* people this sexist... so the moment has finally come when I can blog about this.

Gather 'round, it's story time.

In 2012, the book "Fifty Shades of Grey" was very popular, and the evangelical Christian blogosphere was all up in arms about it. The evangelical Christian position was, this book is BAD because it's about a sexual relationship outside of marriage, and it's being portrayed as positive and exciting. (No, for the most part, evangelical Christians did not notice that it was about an *abusive* relationship being portrayed as positive and exciting. In Christian "purity" ideology, the one and only indicator of whether a relationship is good or bad is "are they having sex outside of marriage?") And also, women being interested in this book is basically the same as watching porn, which is basically the same as cheating on your husband. (Or your future husband, if you're not married.)

Anyway, in the midst of all this pearl-clutching, Jared Wilson published an article on The Gospel Coalition's website, called The Polluted Waters of 50 Shades of Grey, etc. That's the original link, but the article was taken down due to the backlash. I couldn't find an archive link, but many bloggers wrote articles in response to it, and quoted big chunks from it, so you can get a good idea of what it said. I'm looking at Rachel Held Evans's post, The Gospel Coalition, sex, and subordination.

Here's a summary of Jared Wilson's article: Hmm, why is it that women are so interested in "Fifty Shades of Grey"? Ah, it's because women have a natural, God-given desire to be sexually dominated by men. Our society has lost sight of this- feminism teaches that men and women are equal, and that sex should be based on equality and mutual pleasure. So, women don't have any proper outlet for their God-given desire to be sexually dominated by men. They have this need that's not being met. And then "Fifty Shades of Grey" comes along, this low-quality sinful erotica that has all sorts of bad sinful sex, and so many women are into it. Well, this is the reason why.

To support his argument, Jared Wilson included quotes from Doug Wilson's 1999 book, "Fidelity: What it Means to be a One-Woman Man." Sorry there are 2 different people named Wilson. Makes it kinda hard to follow. They are not related. Anyway. Here's a quote from Doug Wilson:

Because we have forgotten the biblical concepts of true authority and submission, or more accurately, have rebelled against them, we have created a climate in which caricatures of authority and submission intrude upon our lives with violence.

In other words, Doug Wilson believes the correct, natural, God-intended way for sex to go is that the man dominates and the woman submits. And because our society has rejected that and says you should do what feels good instead of following gender roles, well now people are all screwed up and confused and that's why they are drawn to bad versions of sexual dominance and submission.

Another quote from Doug Wilson:

When we quarrel with the way the world is, we find that the world has ways of getting back at us. In other words, however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party. A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts.This is of course offensive to all egalitarians, and so our culture has rebelled against the concept of authority and submission in marriage. This means that we have sought to suppress the concepts of authority and submission as they relate to the marriage bed.

So yeah, Doug Wilson says it just doesn't work, if you try to have sex in an equal, mutual way. It just can't work, that's not what sex is. It needs to be "A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." (Eww.) (Also, are the straights okay?) 

People are trying to go against God's design for sex, but in the long run you can't. You try to escape God's design, and then you end up with all these "Fifty Shades" fans.

Okay so that was what Jared Wilson's article said. The feminist Christian blogosphere read it and was outraged. In particular, I saw people saying "yeah I knew that conservatives teach that men have to be the leaders, and a wife has to submit to her husband, but I'm shocked at the idea that these authority/submission roles would even apply to sex. Is this really what complementarians believe? Really? Even in sex, the husband has authority over the wife? Really?"

And my thoughts at the time... well, this was 2012. I had no sexual experience at all, because why would I have any sexual experience, I was a good pure girl. (Also I was in grad school, that's too young to be thinking about sex, right? ... This post is about how I'm asexual...) But everything I'd heard from purity culture said that sex was easy and self-explanatory. That if you don't do a good enough job controlling your desires, you'll just automatically start having sex, without thinking or making decisions. It "just happens," if you're in a situation with "temptation."

Yeah, according to the mythology I believed back then, sex is so AMAZING, but also shrouded in mystery- good, pure, unmarried people aren't allowed to know any concrete details about it. That would be "temptation." But don't worry, once you're in the proper God-approved situation where you are allowed to have sex, ie, on your wedding night, it will be great and you don't need to think or know anything beforehand, it just happens and it will be great.

It didn't really make sense to me, but I believed it. Yeah, it didn't make sense, because... if you think about it... in order to have sex, wouldn't you have to take off your clothes, in front of another person? Wouldn't you have to, uh, interact with a penis? All of that sounds so unpleasant. Hard to imagine any set of circumstances that could entice me to do that. But, purity culture assured me, when you're in that situation, you *will* want it. You'll lose control of yourself and you'll have sex without really thinking about it, and it will FEEL SO AMAZING but it's WRONG, it's BAD and WRONG, and will RUIN YOUR LIFE FOREVER. 

Didn't seem to make sense, but I believed it. Once you're in that situation, your body will just know what to do, and if you're married it will be the best thing ever, and if you're not married then it will feel good in the moment but will RUIN YOUR LIFE.

So in 2012, reading this article where the Wilsons perhaps inadvertently announced their own kinks to the world... I thought, what do I know, maybe sex is like that. Maybe when you're in that situation and your body just takes over and does what's natural and it feels amazing, maybe it will naturally be a woman-being-dominated-by-a-man roleplay. My whole life, everything I had heard from Christians about sex was in the genre of "this makes no intuitive sense at all, but on some level you *do* have these desires, and when you're in that situation, you *will* act this way." This felt no different. On some level, you *do* have a desire to be "conquered" and "colonized" by a man during sex. Hey what do I know, maybe that's true?

And then the bloggers that pushed back and had some very strong responses to this- many of them were married Christian women, like Rachel Held Evans. They had sexual experience, unlike me in 2012. There was something kind of surprising about it... about reasoning about sex based on one's actual experience. Normally in Christian culture, we talked about sex in terms of these big general principles, about "God's design" and "how God made women" and "how God made men" and "the biblical definition of marriage" and so on. It was like arguing over fan theories about a fictional world. Like hypothetical thought experiments. To have people say "I know Doug Wilson is wrong about sex because my own marriage is not like that"- that was a new and different thing for me.

Very interesting how Doug Wilson said, "however we try, the sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party" and then a bunch of people popped up to say that yes, they had done that very thing. Sounds like it's a *you* problem!

Anyway, looking back on it now, the biggest misconception I had back in 2012, the thing that blocked me from understanding in so many ways, was the idea that people don't think or make choices during sex. Like, it "just happens," you "can't control yourself," etc. Like you're just strapped into a roller coaster car and you have no control over where it goes. When I eventually did start having sex, I was so surprised at how we needed to actually take actions to make things happen. And I was just as mentally-present as any time in my normal life, and it's just as weird as you would imagine from reading a description.

So you can choose. If you're into this BDSM roleplay stuff, you can discuss it with your partner and make a choice together about it. If you want to have an "egalitarian pleasure party", great, there are all sorts of sex acts you can choose from, so you and your partner are free to pick which ones you like, and do those- they don't happen automatically, you think about it and make a choice and then take action. 

I'm kind of glossing over the role of desire and arousal here... yeah, those do affect one's thinking and one's choices. I conceptualize this in terms of how you weigh your various reasons to do or not do something- ie, you *want* to do something, for certain reasons, but also you think you shouldn't, for certain reasons- and the desire/arousal/attraction can make you weigh some of those reasons much more highly, so that in that moment it feels like a good idea. I'm probably not describing this well? But my point is, if you imagine that people don't really think or make choices during sex, because it all just happens automatically and naturally and your body just takes over- well, no, that's not how it works.

(Kind of curious about whether "people don't think or make choices during sex" is a common belief for people who grew up in purity culture, or if I just thought that because I'm asexual and couldn't imagine people would do that if they had a choice.)

I have a few things to say in conclusion. First of all, why shouldn't sex be "an egalitarian pleasure party"? Like, why would it not be what both partners want it to be, with equality between them? If it's something other than that, where they have to play certain roles and don't have a choice, isn't that obviously worse??? Second, I wish I could have told my younger self not to believe it, when Christian role models confidently announce "*these* are the desires you have, because these are the desires that everyone has"- how messed up that I believed that rather than my own feelings. And third, when someone is trying to tell you sex *is* a certain way, and it just *cannot possibly be* some other way, they're actually talking about themself, rather than big abstract overarching concepts like "God's design" for sex.

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A few links on Doug Wilson. For years, people have been sounding the alarm about how racist and sexist and Christian-supremacist his ideology is.

From Libby Anne: 
It Is Long Past Time for Evangelical Leaders to Condemn Doug Wilson’s Views on Slavery and the South 
Doug Wilson: Women who reject patriarchy are tacitly accepting “the propriety of rape” 
Shades of Sexual Deviance: Doug Wilson and the Tale of Two Boxes

From the Slacktivist: 
Evangelical gatekeepers and conservative holiness 
For evangelicals, racism isn’t a dealbreaker, but feminism is

From me: 
Christian Nationalism / Faith Without Works Is Dead

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Related

I need to talk about this "selfish and small" nonsense

"Desiring God" says God wants women to be scared of men 

This May Be The Most WTF Christian Article On Sex I've Ever Read

Getting the Power Dynamics Backwards 

How would we even know 'Fifty Shades' isn't normal?

Saturday, February 15, 2025

This 93% Stat About Dads is Totally Made-Up

A pie chart with sections labelled "Lies", "Wrong", "Guesses", and "Who knows?" Image source.

I'm late to the party on this, but I want to talk about this great post from Sheila Wray Gregoire: PODCAST: The 93% Myth That Fathers Matter More than Mothers

There's a statistic that I've heard in conservative Christian spaces. It goes like this:

When dad comes to Christ first, 93% of families will follow.

When mom comes to Christ first, 17% of families will follow.

When kids come to Christ first, 3.5% of families will follow.

("come to Christ" is Christian jargon meaning "converting to [the correct type of] Christianity")

This statistic is used by conservative Christians to make the point that it's SO IMPORTANT for churches to try to reach men. Some churches even use this statistic to justify prioritizing men's ministry higher than women's ministry, or getting rid of women's ministry altogether.

In the podcast I linked, Gregoire talks with Miranda Zapor Cruz (who wrote a post in 2022 showing that no actual research can be found to support this stat) and Beth Allison Barr. Basically, it's about how this statistic is totally made up- and also, it doesn't really "ring true" with most people's experiences- if you ask people who had the biggest influence on their religious beliefs, they often say their mother had a bigger influence than their father.

I liked this quote from Beth Allison Barr:

Beth: I actually had known about the statistic before.  Back when my husband and I were still at the church before he got fired a long time ago and we were really starting to question what the church was teaching about male and female roles, and my husband came to me.  And he said, “Hey, the pastor gave me this statistic this morning.  He said that there’s been this study that shows this.  Do you know anything about this?”  And as an academic, I looked at it, and I was like, “How would they even know that from this?  I mean it’s such a weird thing.”  And to say that 93% of families will go to church if the father is the first one to attend. And, of course, all the questions in my head were like, “Well, what church are they talking about?  How did they get the numbers on this?  Did they follow people across 10 or 20 years or something to try to figure out when,”—I mean it was just all of those questions.  And so I was just like that sounds made up.  I was like, “Where did you get it from?”  And he didn’t know where it came from.  And I just kind of wrote it off.  

Yes! How would they even know this? How would you design a study that could show this? You can't just ask all your church members "who was the first person in your family to become a Christian?"- that's not the data this stat is getting at. You would have to find a bunch of families (how do you define family, exactly? Do the parents have to be married? Are we only looking at families with minor children?) where all members are non-Christians, and then track them (for how long? Barr says 10 or 20 years, that seems about right). You would then check if any of the individuals in these families converted to Christianity (what does that mean, exactly- who defines what "convert to Christianity" means? Do they have to be active in a church for it to count?). And then you check what happened after that- in the families where the dad was the first person to convert, did the mom and kids convert? What about when the mom was first? What about when a kid was first? Do you only track 2 outcomes- "entire family converts" vs "there still exist some immediate family members who are non-Christians"? Wouldn't it be more useful to track how many individual family members converted, rather than only "counting" it if it's the whole family?

And even if you did that, and the result was that "when the dad converts first, 93% of the time the wife and kids convert too", that still doesn't mean churches should prioritize men. Because we don't know anything about how common it is for a man to convert first, compared to a woman converting first. What if it's 100 times more common for a woman to convert first (or, 100 times easier in terms of the amount of resources a church needs to spend, however that's measured)- then, even though there's a lower chance the rest of the family will convert, overall you will get better results if you allocate the resources toward reaching women. If you spend those resources on reaching men, but you don't end up reaching any men (and the statistic says nothing about how easy or hard that would be), then that doesn't help.

The other thing I want to say about this is... about the evangelical attitude toward statistics. People hear this statistic, and it fits with what they believe about how men are naturally the leaders of their families, so they believe the statistic, even though it's hard to imagine an actual study existing that would show this. 

I mean, people are like this in general, though. Let's not act like this is just an evangelical problem. Plenty of people who are "on our side" (whatever that means) are quick to believe and spread statistics that aren't right. 

Let's be on the lookout for this kind of bias in our own thinking. Wanting to use science and logic to win arguments, rather than to actually find out which things you're wrong about, so you can change your own beliefs. Repeating a statistic just because it is consistent with things you already believe, not because it actually makes sense as a thing that can be measured.

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Related:

Wow This Headline Gets the Statistics COMPLETELY WRONG 

The Great Sex Rescue: The 72-Hour Rule

WTF, CNN? 

Here's an article about evangelical women and sex

Tuesday, February 11, 2025

Blogaround

Links not related to the orange antichrist:

1. This Pixar-Inspired Robot Lamp Is the First Apple Intelligence Device I Really Want (February 7) Ah yes, I remember seeing this lamp in "Toy Story."

2. The Racist Cisgender Nonsense of Emilia Perez (February 1) 2-hour-19-minute video from Jessie Gender.

3. He’d Die for You. But Will He Do the Dishes? (February 10) "One of the most bizarre arguments defending men being in authority over women is the idea that one day, he may have to take a bullet for you."

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Links related to the orange antichrist:

1. This Is How Evangelicals Defended Hitler in 1935 (2016 ~ This link was posted in a comment by Matthew James Longstaff.) Many Christians back then supported Hitler- and Christians now need to know this and learn from this history.

When I learned about the Holocaust in middle school, I don't remember learning anything about how Christians in general responded to the Nazis. (I remember hearing about individual Christians who heroically helped Jews hide or escape.) There was one time, one of my classmates asked the teacher what Hitler's religion was, and she said "he was a Christian," and I thought to myself "he wasn't a real Christian," because obviously, look at all the terrible things he did, murdering 6 million people, it's so obvious that's not what a "real" Christian would do. And I didn't think any more of it.

But, no, it wasn't like German Christians supported Nazism because they just didn't care about their Christian identity at all and therefore didn't put any thought into the question "what does Christianity have to say about this?" It's so much worse than that- they really made arguments, based in their Christian beliefs, about why supporting Hitler was the right thing to do. We need to learn from this. We need to know what their arguments were, to make sure we're not making those same arguments now. We need to learn from the way they used Christianity to justify horrific atrocities, so that we don't do the same thing.

2. Trump And 'Don't Say Gay' Come For The National Center For Missing And Exploited Children (February 8) "But like everything else spending-related right now, the executive branch is saying it may not disburse whatever money NCMEC is by law supposed to receive, unless the organization throws gay and transgender children under the bus."

3. “People Will Die”: The Trump Administration Said It Lifted Its Ban on Lifesaving Humanitarian Aid. That’s Not True. (January 31)

4. "Comparison is the way we know the world" (2023, via) "We are not any smarter, kinder, wiser, or more moral than people who lived ninety years ago. We are just as likely to needlessly give up our political power and to remain willfully ignorant of darkness as it’s dawning. But we know something they didn’t know: we know that the Holocaust is possible."

5. Kanye West is selling $20 T-shirts with swastikas (February 10) WTF!

6. Trump's ban on gender-affirming care for young people puts hospitals in a bind (February 10) "After months waiting for an appointment at the gender-affirming care clinic at VCU Health in Richmond, Willow had one on the calendar on Jan. 29. President Trump's executive order limiting transgender health care for youth came out in the afternoon of Jan. 28."

Here's something I don't quite understand- if you have an insight or a link that explains it, leave a comment. I've heard trans people and allies make the argument that the same medical care that is provided to trans kids for gender-affirming reasons is also sometimes provided to cis kids. To ban this care for trans children but not cis children is discrimination on the basis of gender or gender identity- which is not legal.

This strikes me as not a very good argument, but maybe there's something I'm missing? I feel like, if you're talking to someone who doesn't believe being trans is even a real thing, they could just say, "When puberty blockers, for example, are given to cis kids, that's because there's an actual good reason- this happens when a cis kid starts puberty way way too early. Obviously in that case, it makes sense to use puberty blockers to delay puberty to a more normal timeline. That's a good reason to use puberty blockers. But for trans kids, we're talking about completely normal and healthy kids, going through puberty on a normal schedule, and then you want to use puberty blockers to change that? There's no good reason for this- being trans isn't a real thing. All medical procedures and drugs come with risks- so, you should use them if you have a good reason, but if you don't have a good reason, then you shouldn't, because of the risks."

Like, I feel like the situation is not "under this ban, this medical care can be given to cis kids but not trans kids- this is clearly discrimination." It's not *about* being trans or cis- when a trans kid gets treatment, vs a cis kid getting the same treatment, it's a completely different situation. It would happen for completely different reasons. It's not about denying them care simply for being trans, it's about whether there's a good enough reason for them to get this care, and in the eyes of the Republicans making these laws, one's feelings about one's gender is not a good enough reason.

I mean, maybe the pro-trans argument here is that the government shouldn't be in the business of judging what is or isn't a "good enough reason" for receiving medical care? Maybe that's the key? (Oh hey, I also feel that way about abortion.)

It's just that I've seen this argument mentioned ("this is discrimination based on gender because they're not banning this health care for cis kids") but I don't think I've ever seen it clearly explained. Feel free to leave a comment if you know something I don't~

7. Three migrants win temporary block from potential transfer to Guantanamo (February 10) "'Sending immigrants from the U.S. to Guantánamo and holding them incommunicado without access to counsel or the outside world opens a new shameful chapter in the history of this notorious prison,' Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the Immigrants' Rights Project at the American Civil Liberties Union, said in a statement."

Tuesday, July 30, 2024

Concluding Thoughts on "The Great Sex Rescue"

Person reading a book. Image source.

Links to all posts in this series can be found here: Blog series on "The Great Sex Rescue"

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So I've been doing this blog series on The Great Sex Rescue: The Lies You've Been Taught and How to Recover What God Intended [affiliate link]. I finally got through the entire book; this post will be my overall thoughts on it.

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Sex is supposed to be good (this is SO DIFFERENT from what Christian marriage books teach)

There are a few ideas that I've sort of thought about before, but this book really helped me see them more clearly. Here's one of them- the idea that sex is supposed to be good. The more I think about it, the more I'm astonished at how wrong the message I got from other Christian marriage books was. Those books talked about sex like women aren't likely to enjoy it, but have to do it anyway because "men need it."

Well, actually, let me clarify. Christians DO walk around announcing that sex is a beautiful gift from God, that it's so amazing, it's your reward for "staying pure" till marriage, etc. But basically what they mean is this: Sex is PIV [penis-in-vagina], and if you do everything the right way, God's way, then PIV will be amazing/ mindblowing/ "beautiful gift from God"/ etc. Women, if you're doing PIV sex but you're not experiencing it as this amazing thing, well you must be the problem. Keep on doing it, according to this set of rules (you have to have sex every 72 hours, have to make sure it's a perfect experience for your husband, etc), and hopefully you'll be able to get yourself into the right mindset where you can enjoy it.

It's all about forcing yourself to conform to someone else's rules. And if you do that, and you still feel like it's not working, well you're the problem, must be that you still aren't following the rules correctly.

But actually- and I think I was able to figure this out because I'm queer- that's not how sex should be at all. It shouldn't be about following rules about the "correct" way to do it. Instead, each person should figure out what their own desires are, and communicate that to each other, and together they can invent some sequence of sexual or intimate actions that will be enjoyable for both of them. And it shouldn't be biased toward PIV. It should be whatever you and your partner want.

It's astounding to me how completely different this view is from the view that I got from Christian books. I used to think that I couldn't say what I want, because what if it was something my [male] partner didn't want to do, and it ruins the mood for him when I suggest it? I had this assumption that sex is PIV, and if I prefer something else instead of PIV, well, mayyyyybe if I have a partner who's kind enough to humor me, maybe he'll agree to it, but he doesn't have to, it's just a silly thing that's not a standard part of sex. I shouldn't inconvenience him with it.

Conforming myself to someone else's rules, trusting that someone else would know what's right for me.

But the reality is, sex can be such a good thing, when you figure out what you want, and you do that, and you delete all the things that are painful or unpleasant for you. (I'm asexual so I also recognize the possibility that you delete all the sexual aspects- if that's what you want, that's great for you.)

What was all that nonsense about "wives have to do it anyway, even if you don't like it, even if it's painful"???? If it's painful, don't do it! Figure out something that both of you enjoy! It should NEVER be about being required to do something you don't like- what the f***????

One of the main messages of "The Great Sex Rescue" is that it's harmful when we teach that wives are required to have sex, even though they won't like it. And instead, we should teach that yes it is possible for women to enjoy sex. This is really important; I'm glad "The Great Sex Rescue" is saying this.

I go further than "The Great Sex Rescue" though- because this book still says you're required to do PIV. That's one of the things that has frustrated me as I've been writing my blog posts reviewing the book. I don't think we should conceptualize sex as being centered on PIV. It should be whatever the people involved want it to be.

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Marry a man who's decent or an abuser

I've talked about this before, in my review of "Shiny Happy People." Basically, girls who grow up in purity/complementarian ideology are taught that men are... how shall I put this... men are biologically incapable of treating a woman with kindness and respect if she is not following the rules for her gender role. For example, if a woman is dressed "immodestly," men won't respect her, they will objectify her, and maybe rape her. If a wife doesn't have sex with her husband enough, or doesn't "submit" to him enough, he will be angry with her and won't treat her well. Maybe he'll even cheat on her, men are just like that. It's not *her* fault that he cheated, but actually it kinda is, because she should have known that men are like that, and that he would cheat if she didn't satisfy his manly needs.

So if you grow up in that ideology, and buy into it, and then you marry a man, there are 2 possible things that can happen:

  1. You marry a man who's a decent human being. He treats you as an equal. He supports you and respects you. He doesn't expect that you'll sacrifice the things that are important to you, in order to "submit" to him. If he feels that there's a problem with your sex life, he talks to you about it like an adult rather than going off and cheating. If sex is painful for you, he cares about that and doesn't want to do anything that you don't like.
    And the result is that you're amazed that a man can be like that. You were taught that this isn't possible, that there are literally no men who are like that.
  2. You marry a man who's an abuser. He criticizes you and says you're not good enough because you don't "submit" to him all the time like a good wife should. He says you have to have sex even if it's painful, that's just the way it is, that's what God said. He gets angry at you, mistreats you, and says it's because you don't "respect" him enough, because you don't "submit" enough, because you don't give him enough sex- it's your fault.
    And this all feels totally normal to you. You were taught that this is what men are like. This is what marriage is. ("Marriage is hard.")

This is so wrong. So many Christian marriage resources say that women should expect this kind of behavior from men. !!! This is so wrong! Men can be better than that- and should be held to a higher standard than that. I really did not know this, back when I was a good evangelical.

So it's really good that "The Great Sex Rescue" is saying men can and should be better than that. I really appreciate how the chapter on lust featured anecdotes from men who are decent human beings and are totally capable of being near "immodest" women without it being a problem. And throughout the book it says that if a man cheats, or uses porn, that's a problem with him. [Though I personally don't think using porn is necessarily bad.] It is NOT the wife's fault. And you can't fix the problem by telling the wife to have sex more- the only way to fix it is for the man to take responsibility.

It's something I've thought about before- the low expectations that evangelicalism has for men, compared to the reality that men can be SO MUCH BETTER than that- but reading "The Great Sex Rescue" helped me to see this more clearly. 

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The parts that would have been helpful (or not) to me

Years ago, I was trying so hard to figure out why my experience of sex was so completely different than how other people seemed to talk about sex. (Eventually I found out about asexuality, and vaginismus- those are the reasons.) I was looking for answers; I wanted someone to explain sex to me. Why does everyone talk about it like it's the most amazing thing ever? Am I missing something?

(And that's when I bought the book "Come As You Are," because the subtitle said it would "transform your sex life." Uh, it did not.)

So, thinking about myself back then, and the fact that this book is called "The Great Sex Rescue"... if a baby ace buys this book in order to figure out how to have sex, to what extent would it be helpful?

I would say, the most helpful parts are the parts that point out the problems with Christian teaching on marriage and sex. This was very insightful and pointed out logical inconsistencies in ways I hadn't seen before. 

And THE MOST helpful part, for me now, was the section that explained "one thing leads to another." Blew my mind. Really glad I read that, because wowwww. WOWWWW. So that's what everyone was talking about, all this time, when somehow you're kissing and "one thing leads to another" and you [accidentally?] have sex.

But, when the book offers advice on what to do instead, I felt this was very narrow and would not have been helpful for me at all when I was a baby ace. For example: For their advice on how to make sure the wife has an orgasm, the book only says that the husband needs to do more foreplay. Like the woman can't take matters into her own hands to find out what an orgasm even is- no, she just has to let her husband do some trial-and-error on her, and give him feedback on what worked and what didn't. This is so incredibly inefficient, it boggles my mind. 

The book doesn't say this, but the reality is, you need to masturbate. The fact that it doesn't say that... this is in no way a "great sex rescue" for the little ace who is trying to figure out how to have sex. Which isn't necessarily a criticism of the book- no book can address everyone's sex problems- but it's just kinda sad for the hypothetical little ace looking for answers. (And maybe also for the women reading this book who have never had an orgasm and are trying to learn how to do it- I don't see how any advice could possibly help them if it doesn't include "you should masturbate.")

(And the thing that was actually helpful for me back then was this: An Asexual’s Guide To … Best sex-ed resource I have EVER found.)

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About being a sex-favorable ace

So, doing this blog series has really reinforced to me the fact that I'm different from people who have a sex drive, and also different from sex-repulsed aces. 

I feel so mystified by the whole concept of "sex drive", and I write stuff about how I go about this *logically* like a Vulcan, and I get comments from people who point out how what I said doesn't apply to most people, because I've overlooked the existence of sex drive. I do appreciate those comments, because I know there are things that I missed (and I also like how I have my own blog and am therefore free to post whatever naive asexual insights I want to). So, uh, doing an entire blog series about sex has really helped me to see this difference more clearly.

And, on the other side we have sex-repulsed aces. Doing this blog series made me realize I don't know much about how sex-repulsed aces would feel about these things. (Well, repulsed, I guess, but I don't know much beyond that.) And maybe I've been too optimistic in the parts where I talked about what to do with the incompatibility between an ace partner and allo partner (ie, not on the asexual spectrum). Or when I talked about how sex can be so much better than how purity-culture proponents describe it. So I also appreciate the comments from sex-repulsed aces, to fill in the gaps.

Specifically, my situation was, I'm asexual but I was very curious about sex and wanted to do it [since I had found a partner who was good enough to go to the trouble], and the issue was just not really having a clue because all of it was so unnatural to me. (Also, vaginismus.) And I feel like I have to add more disclaimers, make it clear that this is not the case for most aces. Most aces don't ever want to have sex- and I support them in that. I do relate to that; there are very few situations where I feel it makes sense to have sex- it makes perfect sense to me to never find yourself in such a situation and therefore never have sex. Nothing wrong with that.

I like that "The Great Sex Rescue" covered a lot of topics and gave me a lot to respond to, and an opportunity to write about my own views on this. I remember thinking "there needs to be an ace review of this book- so I need to write it."

I was kind of worried, when I started this blog series, maybe I shouldn't do it because I'm going to write things that are ignorant and cringey. But, well, that's one of the main benefits of IDing as asexual- it serves as an explanation to legitimize my ignorance and naivety. So if people are like "why is she acting like she's so clueless about this" well it's because I'm asexual, of course I'm clueless, my cluelessness makes total sense and isn't something I need to feel ashamed about. I'm really glad the ace community is a place I can talk about this stuff without people making fun of me and saying "don't be so naive" and refusing to explain whatever it is I missed.

So the point is, if I wrote something ignorant and cringey, I do appreciate the comments that kindly point it out and explain it.

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Maybe this was always about men having power

I've been blogging about the problems with purity culture since 2012. And overall, I treat it like it was in good faith, like this system of rules was developed for us by leaders who really genuinely wanted to help people avoid heartbreak and to have good marriages, and I point out how it fails at that. But every now and then, I start to get a little suspicious that it was never about that at all. Every now and then, it dawns on me how this is EXACTLY the kind of system you would create if your goal was to ensure that powerful men continued to have power over everybody else.

And reading "The Great Sex Rescue," well, this is one of those times I start to wonder. Maybe purity ideology and complementarianism were always about men having power. Maybe when Christians said this is what's best for me, because it's God's plan for me to follow my God-given gender role, and that's the most natural and that's what will lead to the best life for me... I mean, obviously I know they were wrong, but maybe they didn't even believe it either. Maybe they made that up to give men power over women.

The authors of "The Great Sex Rescue" are basically coming at it from the same direction I have been- viewing it as, the claim is that if people follow these rules, they will have good marriages and good sex lives, so let's analyze that claim and point out why it's just not true. But also I think these authors are like me, in that occasionally we can't help but wonder if powerful men just made up these rules to maintain their own power.

Some of my posts related to that:

In Some Alternate Universe, I'm Writing a Post About Masks and "Causing to Stumble" 

5/25/2022 Blogaround

Men have no idea what it's like for women in complementarian churches

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Wrapping it up

Overall, I'm glad I read this book. I enjoyed it, even though there were many parts which frustrated me because they were so narrow/heteronormative.

Gregoire and the other authors of "The Great Sex Rescue" are doing very good work. On their blog, they are always getting comments from straight women in bad marriages, straight women who are abuse victims, straight women who are divorced... Straight women who have been blamed and rejected by the church. It's really good how Gregoire's blog and books are able to help these straight women so much. I genuinely do believe it's good that Gregoire and her co-authors are there doing that work.

At the same time, though... you publish a book in The Year Of Our Lord 2021 about how Christian teaching on marriage/ sex/ gender roles is harmful, and the book doesn't say ANYTHING AT ALL about the fact that these teachings are harmful to queer people? That's WILD. That's just WILD, to have that not mentioned in the book at all. To pretend everyone is straight and cis and allosexual. And I know a big part of it is because this is how evangelical culture is- if you say anything positive that acknowledges the existence of queer people, you get cancelled. But still...

So I think it's important, when we talk about this book, that we call out how it is narrow and not inclusive of queer people. Yes, for its target demographic of straight cis allo Christian women, it's really helpful, but it needs to come with a warning. And if you're queer and don't want to read this book because you just can't deal with Christians who pretend queer people don't exist, well, yeah, I totally understand that. Definitely don't read it then.

Okay, those are my thoughts~ I'm glad I read this book, it has a lot of good things to say, and also a lot of places where I disagreed, which gave me a chance to talk about my own asexual opinions.

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Links to all posts in this series can be found here: Blog series on "The Great Sex Rescue" 


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