Welcome everyone to #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales~ Come for the bad theology, stay for the fantastic songs and jokes—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Today I will be livetweeting VeggieTales "Josh and the Big Wall" (1997) #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOP9FHKJBQg …—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
we start out with Bob & Junior on the counter. where's Larry? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Hahaha Larry "was a little tired after the last show" (LarryBoy + the fib from outer space) #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
wait wait wait, somebody wrote a letter to bob & larry saying there's a kid named louis in his class who hit him #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
the letter writer says he learned in church he should be nice to ppl, but he wants to hit louis back. so the way they framed the question is, should he do it HIS way or GOD'S way? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
@pnumber628 LW should curse his enemy, so God will send bears to eat him. Like Elisha!—Holly Jolly Natemas (@NathanOfOz) 2017-12-17
Here's the beginning of our story. The Israelites are in the desert. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
OH MY GOD THE BURNING BUSH IS FANTASTIC. it's gesturing wildly with its little "arms" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales pic.twitter.com/g5OxZrDv9Z—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
(that was a little flashback) #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Then Bob points out that the Israelites are currently in the desert, not the promised land #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Bob says all they had to do was "follow God's directions" & they would get to the promised land. but they didn't "follow his directions" so they had to wait 40 years #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
yeppppppp big red flag on how genocide is framed as "following God's directions" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
anyway this is a story about Joshua, played by Larry the Cucumber—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Larry: "Do I know you?"
Bob: "I'm the narrator"
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Then there's a song abt how excited they are to FINALLY get to go to the promised land #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"And in the promised land it's gonna be so grand, we'll have our fill from the grill as much as we can stand" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
yeah this song is mainly about how good the food is going to be in the promised land #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"I hear it's flowwwwwwwwwwwwwing—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
with milk and honeyyyyyyyy"
"SOUNDS STICKY!"
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
conveniently, nobody mentions that PEOPLE ALREADY LIVE in the promised land #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"Unfortunately, he overlooked one little detail: Jericho"—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Time for a silly song with larry! It's the song of the Cebu #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"ummm, ummm, this is me at the airport"—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Archibald interrupts—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"You call this a multimedia event? this is a slide projector and a bed sheet! and what on earth is a Cebu?" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
sick Cebu is rowing and sneezing, achoo moomoo achoo moomoo achoo moomoo moomoo #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
hippo seen by mute Cebu, tries to tell the other two #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Larry is having difficulties with the projector. Archibald interrupts again #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"Does the hippo see them? Is the mute Cebu successful in communicating the immenent danger to the other passengers? is the boy injured? why is the sad Cebu sad? is the canoe wood or aluminum????" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"You can't just start a song and leave it hanging!" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
pretty sure this is how larry loses his silly song gig in the next episode #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Okay back to Joshua and Jericho- which is inhabited by French peas #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
ohhhhhhhhhhh dear—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Josh: "no, you don't understand. God has given us this land. so...... you're gonna have to leave"
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
wowowowowoww oh this is bad, Josh is trying to tell them that god said this land is theirs—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
so much cringe, this is like me in an apologetics argument back then #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
the peas dropped a slushy on them #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
later, the Israelites are back at camp trying to figure out what to do. some want to go back to Egypt. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Jimmy and Jerry decide to come up with a plan to "take out that wall". Pa Grape is like "they are so aggressive" omg seriously? like, you know this is a story about war, right? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Josh sees a vision of "commander of the army of the Lord", played by Archibald Asparagus #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
@pnumber628 I always adored Archibald because he was so obviously a fellow anxiety person.—Superenby! Destroying Truth Itself! (@MorganL666) 2017-12-17
"I come with directions from the Lord!!!" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
He tells Josh that they have to march around the city for 7 days and blow trumpets, etc, and the walls with collapse #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
oh god this is bad—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Junior remarks on how odd those directions are. flashbacks to me believing that faith meant doing stuff that make no sense #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Josh goes back to explain the plan to the Israelites. They don't think it will work. But Josh says "those are God's directions" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Jimmy & Jerry unveil their "Wallminator 3000"—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
[applause]
"How are we clapping?"
"I have no idea"
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Junior is horrified. They're going to ignore God's directions again! #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Josh sings a song about how they have to obey god #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
wait how are there not any women among the Israelites? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
The next morning, they went out and marched around Jericho #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Jericho peas: "What are you doing?"—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Jimmy: "We're going to knock your wall down?"
"By walking around in circles?"
"Yes. It's not cuz we're crazy or anything, our God told us to do it this way."
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
I find it very interesting that they put in the line about "we're not crazy, we're just doing what god said." I have A LOT of opinions about that. We'll get to it. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Anyway, the peas are singing "Keep walking, but you won't knock down our wall" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
The Jericho peas are all laughing at them.—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Oh no they are throwing slushies #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
That night, back at the Israelite camp, Josh is trying to tell them they are doing well, but they are all discouraged #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
They decided they don't want to follow Josh any more #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Junior turns up, breaking the fourth wall, and tells them about how they need to "follow God's directions" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
oh god, Junior is making a speech about how God's directions don't always make sense but we have to follow anyway, oh this is so harmful #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
He gives examples- God told them to walk right through the red sea, that didn't make sense but they obeyed & God parted the sea #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Junior has inspired them all to continue with the "marching around the wall" plan #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
"I've seen the pyramids. ... I built the pyramids. Let's go to Jericho!"—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
this isn't really historically accurate #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
narrator says the people of Jericho "hit them with everything they had" ie slushies. ummm you know this is a story about war and killing, right? is throwing slushies supposed to be, like, shockingly violent? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
on the 7th day, they blew trumpets & all the ppl yelled—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
then it got quiet & nothing happened
but a few seconds later, everything fell down #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Larry comes through the wreakage of the city & says "HELLO, MY NAME IS JOSHUA, AND GOD HAS GIVEN US THIS LAND"
the peas run away #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
We're back with Junior and Bob on the counter, Junior is so happy because of the happy ending #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
The lesson we're supposed to get from this story is "God's way is the best way." #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
2 Samuel 22:31a "As for God, his way is perfect" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
All right that's the end of VeggieTales "Josh and the Big Wall" and man I have A LOT of opinions.—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Let's discuss. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
like, this episode was so bad, where do i even start? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
First of all, the story about Joshua & Jericho in the bible is a story about genocide. God commanded them to kill everyone in the city (except Rahab & family) #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
But it gets made into a children's sunday school lesson because the imagery of walking around a wall & the wall falling down is cool #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
We see Larry the Cucumber come up to the people of Jericho, out of the blue, & tell them they have to leave their homes because God said #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like, wow, i was actually shocked to see that in a kids' movie. Usually the "we are forcing these people off their land" aspect is glossed over much much more #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like, can you imagine coming up to a random stranger & telling them they have to hand something over to you, because God said, & believing that is a totally reasonable thing for you to say to a stranger? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Why are the ppl of Jericho portrayed as villains in this story? Like if somebody was trying to knock down your city walls & steal your home, what would you do? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Why are we expected to side with the Israelites, to accept that they're telling the truth abt "God gave us this land" & that the ppl of Jericho are being unreasonable when they refuse to leave? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
But let's talk about the main lesson that was presented here: "God's way is the best way. Follow God's directions even when they don't make sense." Because that is EFFED UP. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
First of all, at the beginning they said they got a letter from a children who was hit by another kid, & in church he learned to be nice but he wants to hit him back #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
But insted of talking about that situation & the various options & likely consequences for each one, Bob frames it as "do it your way vs do it God's way" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Kid A hit Kid B, Kid B feels wronged & doesn't want to "be nice" to Kid A, somehow this whole situation was simplified down to "do you follow God's rules or not" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
You'll notice that the only similarity between the letter writer's situation & the story of Joshua/Jericho is "do you obey God's rules or not" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like, one situation is about how to respond to a kid who hits you, the other is about killing ppl and taking their land. HOW ON EARTH do the veggies think these are at all related? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Really the Israelites are the ones doing the "hitting", they just showed up out of nowhere and harrassed the residents of Jericho into leaving #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
This whole thing was about unquestioned obedience to rules. There was NO DISCUSSION AT ALL about WHY it's good & beneficial to act a certain way. It was all "do it because God said" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
@pnumber628 because any ethical discussion of this one would lead to the conclusion you should disobey god.—Superenby! Destroying Truth Itself! (@MorganL666) 2017-12-17
@MorganL666 right, yeah if you actually talked abt what god was actually telling them to do, then it gets really wtf really fast.—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
so maybe don't make it into a kids' movie then?
It is so EXTREMELY HARMFUL to teach kids they need to follow rules just for the sake of following rules. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
You should teach them bigger principles behind the rules- like caring about people (including caring about yourself). Teach them it's good or bad to do this because of the way it affects PEOPLE. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Teaching kids they should follow rules just because "God said", without teaching them to think about the reasons & effects of their behavior is setting them up for abuse #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
@pnumber628 And to abuse others. They will follow rules, and impose rules on others, in harmful ways if they subscribe to that thinking all their lives.—Ahab (@Ahab_Of_Gilead) 2017-12-18
But throughout the whole story of "Josh and the Big Wall", over and over they talked about "following God's directions." They didn't talk about what they were ACTUALLY DOING.—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
it was abstracted to "following God's directions" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Also I think it's EXTREMELY INTERESTING that Jimmy Gourd told the Jericho peas they were walking around the wall to make it fall because "it's not cuz we're crazy, our God told us to do it this way"—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
Like, let's talk about the intersection of mental health & the teaching that "you have to follow God's directions even when they don't make sense" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like what if you have a "feeling" or "voice in your head" that tells you to do something that sounds like a REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA, but you become convinced it's God telling you? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
In the most extreme cases, this leads to killing in the name of God. Maybe the killer even recognizes that killing seems like a really bad thing, but they have to, bc god said, surely god must have a reason. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like in the story of Abraham (almost) sacrificing Isaac. Or, ahem, Joshua killing the people of Jericho. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
@pnumber628 I think what I came to realise is that the Bible is not childrens stories. None of the stories usually used are really as tame as they are made out.—Steve Clough (@SchrodiesCat) 2017-12-17
Back when I was "on fire for God", I would sometimes have these "thoughts" that seemed "crazy" or seemed like really bad ideas, and i had to seriously consider the possibility that God actually wanted me to do those things #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Usually it was things along the lines of "go up and share the gospel with this stranger" or "start asking them very personal questions about their religious beliefs" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Occasionally even weirder stuff than that, like feeling like i was supposed to go to some certain place for unknown reasons #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Because I believed that it's quite common that God would, out of nowhere, tell you to do something that makes no sense, I took all those thoughts very seriously, submitting them to a rigorous analysis to decide if they were "from God" or not #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Most of the time, for the weirdest stuff, I concluded that it was just a weird thing my brain made up, and it wasn't "from God" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
But I hate how I had to actually take those things seriously, treating them like "yes it's totally possible that this is a real thing God is commanding me to do" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Some people have intrusive thoughts- I don't, my stuff is more along the lines of anxiety- combine that with the belief "yes, sometimes god commands us to do things that make no sense, & we must obey" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Jimmy Gourd said "it's not because we're crazy, our God told us to do it this way". If you really believe that, then how can you not believe every "crazy" person who does bad things in the name of religion? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
One more thing I want to say: On the 7th day, they blew trumpets & yelled, and then there were several seconds of tense silence, the peas started laughing, and then the walls fell #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
I remember those several seconds of tense silence in this video really affected me as a child #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like, they expect the walls to fall when they yell, and then nothing happens. Then what do you do? Do you keep believing? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
I remember imagining that they needed to keep having faith, even during those few seconds of silence when it seemed like nothing was happening- if they lost faith, then God wouldn't knock down the wall #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
That was my interpretation when I was a child, i'm not sure if it was ever taught to me directly though—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
But "having faith" was definitely taught as an important thing, so, yeah.
#PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
I don't know if the creators of VeggieTales meant it this way, but those several seconds of silence represented one of my biggest fears #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
They obeyed God. They marched around the city. They blew trumpets & yelled. And then nothing happened.—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like, what do you do? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
They had to live in that scary reality for like 5 seconds, and then the walls fell #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
All right. Let's sum up VeggieTales "Josh and the Big Wall" #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
The lesson about "obedience" is EXTREMELY BAD. This movie was all about teaching kids they should "follow God's directions"- there was nothing about THINKING FOR YOURSELF abt what you're doing & how it affects ppl #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Also, it's a story abt how the Israelites just rolled in & expected the inhabitants of Jericho to just give up their land & their homes #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
The audience is supposed to see the ppl of Jericho as the "bad guys" bc they don't want to be forced off their land. WTF???? #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
@pnumber628 Right? Joshua is such a reversal of Exodus and this story is hella problematic—HumboldtSnarx Ghost of Communism to Come (@jasdye) 2017-12-17
The VeggieTales version of Joshua & Jericho didn't show any killing, but that's what the original story was about. #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
But there were some VERY CRINGE-WORTHY scenes where Larry the Cucumber explicitly told the ppl of Jericho that "God said" they need to leave #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
Like wow, they covered up the killing part of the story, but fully embraced the "forcing ppl out of their homes in the name of God" part—Perfect Number (@pnumber628) 2017-12-17
WTFFFFF #PerfectNumberWatchesVeggieTales
@pnumber628 In an era when millions of innocent people HAVE been forced out of their homes (Rohingya, Syrians), stories like this are dangerous. We must recognize forcible displacement as morally wrong. Stories like this stunt people's empathy for the displaced.—Ahab (@Ahab_Of_Gilead) 2017-12-18
---------------------
To see all my VeggieTales reviews: Perfect Number Watches VeggieTales (Master Post)
No comments:
Post a Comment