Modesty: My Solution

Here is my previous post, in which I basically concluded that it would be most godly for me to not look like a girl.

And here is my answer, my personal stance on this whole "modesty" issue:

1. If modesty is for helping the boys, then it's ONLY for the decent boys.

If modesty is about helping boys not to lust, well, some boys are beyond help.  There are men who WANT to objectify women. Women have NO RESPONSIBILITY to "help" them not be perverts. There are men who stare at women on the bus. There are men who get on the internet and argue that women should take sexual harassment as a COMPLIMENT. There are men who make awful sexist superbowl commercials... Modesty is absolutely not for their benefit.

Because they don't want help. Because they're beyond help. Because the only way to stop them from objectifying you is to not let them know you're a girl.

Usually it gets worded a bit more crudely... Image source.

Because if you're a pervert, and you want to be a pervert, that's your own problem. It makes no sense for me to change my behavior for someone who doesn't even respect women. It's ridiculous that I would even CONSIDER that maybe I should change my behavior for them. Absolutely not.

The best I can do is try not to think about it, because that's the creepiest thing...

No, the boys we are trying to "help" by being "modest" are the decent ones. They're the ones who respect women and treat them like, you know, people. Treat them like friends, like sisters. They are the ones who want to have a friendly conversation with you, and know that it would be wrong to stare at your boobs, and they don't want to stare, so help them out by not showing cleavage.

The decent guys are the ones who have thought about this stuff before, who know what lust is, and know their own weaknesses and limits. They live in the same world you do- they have to live in society every day and interact with women. As long as your appearance is within the realm of what people typically look like, the guys have seen it before and if this is really a problem for them, then they have faced it before and know what they need to do to deal with it.

So, not as much of a big deal as we girls might think.

(Decent guys out there- am I right?)

2. Cost vs benefit

One of the ideas behind "modesty" is that yes, girls totally have the freedom to wear whatever, but we should give up some of that freedom, to help out the guys. So, you could see it like this:

Cost to me, as a woman: I don't get to look as sexy as I want.

Benefit to men: They don't have to worry about guarding their minds against lust when they're around me.

Maybe that sounds reasonable in principle, but how does that work in a practical sense? Do women have to agonize over all their clothing choices, feel bad about their bodies if they look more "feminine", question their motives all the time, and feel guilty for wanting to be beautiful?

"Oh no this t-shirt has an image on the front! I'm worried that it draws too much attention to my chest..." Image source.

How it actually works out:

Cost to me, as a woman: I feel like I'm not allowed to look cute/beautiful/feminine at all. The logical conclusion is that I should wear a tent, you know, in order to help the guys as much as possible.

Benefit to men: Impossible to measure. Maybe it all didn't matter.

But the bible says to treat others better than ourselves. So shouldn't I give up my rights, without limit, in order to possibly help someone else a little bit?

No. The cost to me/ benefit to you ratio DOES matter. This would be like if I walked 5 miles to Tim Hortons and back to buy you a coffee in case you didn't like the one you already had. Every day.

My first rage comic! Be nice.

This is clearly unreasonable. But this is exactly what it's like for a woman to worry about her clothes and feel bad and fear that she might "cause her brother to stumble", and by extension feel like something is wrong with the feminine way her body was made, and that she's not allowed to be beautiful. Huge cost, no apparent benefit.

(Decent guys out there- speak up if I've got this all wrong.)

3. What you wear should be about YOU

For all body types, there are some clothes that look really good for that body type. Women should go ahead and figure out what makes them look good and feel good, and wear that.  

As far as "modesty" is concerned, well, I guess don't show a ton of cleavage, and don't wear some super-tight catwoman suit, but other than that, don't worry about it. Seriously, don't worry about it. I personally don't care about modesty at all any more. As long as what you look like is within the realm of what people typically look like, it's fine.

The most important thing about what you wear should be that YOU like it. I want women to feel awesome about how they look. Wear clothes that make you happy. What you wear should be about you, it shouldn't be to please someone else, and it definitely shouldn't be to "help" boys with some vaguely-understood phantom problem that they might have.

(And I no longer have the patience to be super-extreme-conservative about a "problem" that I can never directly observe or understand.)

Also, one component of "what makes you feel good" is how other people perceive you. Yeah, it's true that people will give you a different amount of respect depending on what you wear. Ideally it wouldn't be that way, but whatever. Figure out how that makes you feel, and dress accordingly.  

Also don't try to "dress to get attention from guys" ON PURPOSE. But that's not the same thing as feeling awesome about yourself. Yes, I think feeling good because you look cute is somewhat related to being attractive to guys. But don't kill yourself trying to tease out and analyze your motives. (In other words, I don't require that the dot product of "I want to wear this because it's cute" and "I want boys to think I'm attractive" is 0.) You're fine. Looking awesome is awesome. Go ahead and be awesome.

Seriously. Yeah basically this is my stance on modesty: Don't worry about the boys. Just wear whatever makes you look and feel awesome. If you're not TRYING to manipulate boys by wearing revealing stuff, then I'm sure you're fine. Please, just don't worry about it. It's not fair for women to have that burden.

4. We absolutely DO NOT judge other women's clothing choices.

I can think of very very few situations in which it would be okay for one women to tell another that her clothes were too "immodest." Certainly it would only be okay between very very good friends- and even then, very rarely.

I'm not okay with the stories I hear about Christian camp counselors punishing/shaming girls for wearing a two-piece swimsuit. (For tall skinny people like me, one-piece swimsuits just DO NOT EXIST. I bet there are other body-types with that issue too.)

"Thank goodness- they've relaxed the requirements this year! I can bring a one-piece swimsuit, or a two-piece made of unicorn fur!" Image source.

And I'm not okay with girls making comments: "she needs to put some clothes on" referring to some stranger they see out in public. Even if it's a girl walking around in a bikini in the mall. Yes I know that does not fit my requirement above about being "in the realm of what people typically wear" but that doesn't matter. That's a guideline I've set for myself, not something I'd like to force everyone to follow. You don't know her- don't judge her.

I'm DEFINITELY not okay with making little comments about what someone wears to church. It's the freaking church! We need to accept people, not judge them. (You may have heard of someone named Jesus who advocated this...?) If someone comes to your church, and you say "wow I can't believe she's wearing a shirt like that" instead of saying "Hi, welcome to church", then you’re doing it wrong.

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So, that's my solution to modesty. This is meant to be advice for what to do as an individual woman- I haven't addressed how this shows some of the problems of society in general, I haven't offered a solution about what to teach young Christian girls (and boys) about modesty/lust/beauty. And I think different women may have different "solutions" than I do. That's fine. We can disagree about everything except point #4, about not judging people- I stand by that point.

Tell me what you think in the comments!