tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post8890398580344376334..comments2023-12-27T19:24:48.254-05:00Comments on Tell me why the world is weird: The plagues of Egypt ruined everythingperfectnumber628http://www.blogger.com/profile/10303683510076315803noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-37278933584580358942012-08-18T07:54:03.846-04:002012-08-18T07:54:03.846-04:00Also, remember that a LOT of Egyptians left with t...Also, remember that a LOT of Egyptians left with the Israelites too. I remember hearing a sermon on this how each and every plague was also a personal attack on the Egyptian Gods, God was basically utterly overthrowing their gods by saying 'I am bigger and stronger than you are'. Thus, through these horrific plagues God is proving his authority as God, and these Egyptians who have been deserted by their gods follow Yahweh out into the wilderness and become Israelites with all the rest. I'm not saying they're any less horrific, but that they all had the choice of following God now and not starving! :)Tashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06077380555884244833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-9502152619861210212012-08-06T21:41:12.649-04:002012-08-06T21:41:12.649-04:00Hmm yeah- I think you have some good points. ^_^ F...Hmm yeah- I think you have some good points. ^_^ For the part about "God always uses the least severe means necessary to bring the most people to Him at the deepest level of love without violating anyone's free will"- how do we know that? I feel like it makes sense, because we believe God is merciful and he respects people's free will- but I'm a little skeptical about using such extreme words like "always", "least", etc.<br /><br />"God judges sin"- yeah, he does- this is a really important thing about God, and it's in the bible EVERYWHERE. I've been reading in Jeremiah and other prophets, all these really graphic prophesies about war and destruction and how everyone's going to die- and it's horrifying- it's not cleaned-up/censored. And I don't like it but it's real. So... not sure what to say about all that stuff.<br /><br />Also: If God punishes a nation for the sins of its leader, doesn't that mean he's working with stereotypes and not seeing individual people? Like he has a very naive understanding of how society works...perfectnumber628https://www.blogger.com/profile/10303683510076315803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-30023459102615585522012-08-05T19:50:28.852-04:002012-08-05T19:50:28.852-04:00Hi,
First, you are right. God can handle your cr...Hi,<br /><br />First, you are right. God can handle your criticism and your questions. When we say Christianity is a relationship, we mean it, and that means God wants you to have questions and He wants to explain the answers to you.<br /><br />Now, to your question. I'll put some thoughts out there for you. They are not fully formed, but that's what blogging is all about.<br /><br />First thought... I have found much comfort in something Mike Bickle (www.ihop.org) says -- "God always uses the least severe means necessary to bring the most people to Him at the deepest level of love without violating anyone's free will." Therefore, when God brings a plague -- or a series of plagues -- on a people, He does so with the intention that it will cause people to cry out to Him.<br /><br />Next thought... God always judges sin. Sometimes He judges it in the time where it is being committed, and sometimes He judges it at a future date. God's righteousness demands that He judge sin. He cannot let it go. He cannot overlook it. He cannot brush it under the rug. And sin has consequences -- all the time. So why punish the whole nation for the actions of one man? Because that man, as the leader of the nation, acted on behalf of the nation. When Pharaoh refused to let Israel go, it was as if the entire nation refused to let Israel go, and therefore the entire nation was guilty. What an important lesson for those who would be leaders.<br /><br />I will confess to you that the gentle Jesus, meek and mild, that we find on flannelgraphs and Colorforms sets with a sheep over His shoulders is not the God who has revealed Himself in the Bible. When Jesus returns to the earth, He will do so with a sword in His mouth with which He will personally slay the leaders of the nations. This runs contrary to what most mainline denominational churches will teach, because most mainline churches want to teach that all Jesus wants from us is to be nice. <br /><br />The only problem with that line of thinking is that the apostles didn't get martyred because they preached a message of niceness. Think about what the message had to have been for it to rise to the level of martyrdom.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04137866351177877963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-34076423684274120622012-08-05T19:22:25.368-04:002012-08-05T19:22:25.368-04:00Hmm, that's interesting. So it looks like ther...Hmm, that's interesting. So it looks like there are 3 possibilities:<br /><br />1. The exodus didn't happen and the bible is garbage.<br />2. The exodus happened in the way that I understand it after reading the story from the bible.<br />3. The exodus did not happen that way- I am misunderstanding what the writers of the bible were trying to say. But the bible is still awesome.<br /><br />So, I'm not going to accept #1 because I've decided I'm a Christian and I believe in the bible, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I don't want to get into questioning whether God exists, etc, because I've done that before (every Christian NEEDS to do that) and I've decided that there will never be complete certainty one way or the other, but Christianity makes sense to me and I am a Christian.<br /><br />As for #2 and #3, yeah, I'm willing to consider both of those. I looked at your links that say the Jews were never in Egypt, etc. I'm inclined to not believe them- (well, you know I'm biased) anyone can claim "there's no evidence whatsoever" and I don't know enough about archaeology to actually evaluate whether they're right or not. (What kind of evidence are they expecting, several thousand years later?)<br /><br />But I don't know the answer. And I know I need to keep in mind that the first thing I think when I read the bible isn't necessarily what the author was trying to say. But as it stands now, I believe in the exodus and the plagues and the miracles, because my interpretation of the bible means a lot more to me than a few websites I have never seen before today.<br /><br />But of course my interpretation could be wrong, and I appreciate you bringing this stuff up for discussion. ^_^perfectnumber628https://www.blogger.com/profile/10303683510076315803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-47446109939882041212012-08-05T00:53:24.844-04:002012-08-05T00:53:24.844-04:00I believe you may have been Poe'd ;)
http://r...I believe you may have been Poe'd ;)<br /><br />http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law<br /><br />And if you haven't been Poe'd, then my faith in humanity is firmly shaken.Atheist Lovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-19582115025030353682012-08-05T00:51:13.580-04:002012-08-05T00:51:13.580-04:00Congratulations for being one of the few Christian...Congratulations for being one of the few Christians who can read the Bible without dressing up the unfortunate parts in a thick layer of excuses, ignorance, and denial.<br /><br />However, it must be quite rough on your conscious to be stuck on the side of a god which clearly uses Genocide where more subtle techniques could easily suffice. Not to mention that this God also "hardened the Pharoh's heart"...<br /><br />I'd like to put your mind at ease about these morally reprehensible events of the past. Like many events of the Bible, these plagues never happened. In fact, the Jews were never in Egypt.<br /><br />http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Documents/grounds.htm<br />http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm<br />http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844<br />http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html?page=allAtheist Lovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-53634748679985056892012-08-05T00:09:19.980-04:002012-08-05T00:09:19.980-04:00To be honest, it doesn't make me feel better- ...To be honest, it doesn't make me feel better- I feel like that's dismissing it way too easily.<br /><br />And how can we say it's "moral" because "oh, by definition God is moral" when it doesn't look anything like other commonly-held ideas of what "morality" is?perfectnumber628https://www.blogger.com/profile/10303683510076315803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626292304461574111.post-13721400783648461812012-08-04T18:09:01.492-04:002012-08-04T18:09:01.492-04:00If it makes you feel any better, the genocide was ...If it makes you feel any better, the genocide was the moral thing to do, because God is perfectly good and is the source of all morality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com